Comments on: Baba Yetu, Brutus? http://www.philomathy.org/2009/06/12/baba-yetu-brutus/ Fetishising the Human Brain since Ought-Nine Thu, 07 Jan 2010 22:54:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=774 hourly 1 By: Danny http://www.philomathy.org/2009/06/12/baba-yetu-brutus/comment-page-1/#comment-346 Danny Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:43:58 +0000 http://www.philomathy.org/?p=112#comment-346 Geoff, Sagan's a tricky example because there IS often a lyrical quality to his prose. Nonetheless, I don't think he wrote with the intention of being recited, and so probably didn't pay much extra attention to the cadences of his text beyond his (prodigious) subconscious aesthetic. I may be selling him short, though. My point is to ask, do you really think there's something about religious subject matter that makes it better-fitted to sweeping, orchestral or choral media than any other particular subject? I'm not a big fan of the Les Misérables musical, but there's some pretty epic stuff about France in there, if I recall. I wonder, if we got a composer/librettist really jazzed about cosmology or evolution, if something couldn't be produced on that scale. It IS awesome. Geoff, Sagan’s a tricky example because there IS often a lyrical quality to his prose. Nonetheless, I don’t think he wrote with the intention of being recited, and so probably didn’t pay much extra attention to the cadences of his text beyond his (prodigious) subconscious aesthetic. I may be selling him short, though.

My point is to ask, do you really think there’s something about religious subject matter that makes it better-fitted to sweeping, orchestral or choral media than any other particular subject? I’m not a big fan of the Les Misérables musical, but there’s some pretty epic stuff about France in there, if I recall.

I wonder, if we got a composer/librettist really jazzed about cosmology or evolution, if something couldn’t be produced on that scale. It IS awesome.

]]> By: Ephraim http://www.philomathy.org/2009/06/12/baba-yetu-brutus/comment-page-1/#comment-342 Ephraim Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:05:39 +0000 http://www.philomathy.org/?p=112#comment-342 I'm not up on my Wagner, but I was under the impression that his music as a text in-and-of-itself does not contain any antisemitism (no choruses of "throw the Jew down the well", et cetera). As Geoff so eloquently put it, I think there is a difference between enjoying a text which has been produced by an artist who personally holds abhorrent views, but is otherwise inoffensive in-and-of-itself, and enjoying a text which literally is a call to violence, hatred, or anything else equally unsavoury. I'm all in favour of the separation of the artist from the work in this regard - I still enjoy Wagner, I still enjoy the films of Woody Allen despite the man's questionable and unequivocably icky choice to leave his wife for his step-daughter, and on a more pederstrian note I still enjoy Michael Jackson despite the weighty accusations of pedophilia against him. Though I don't think there is anything ethically untoward about separating the artist from their work in this way. However, the doesn't mean that a viewer is not allowed to let his opinion of the artist as a human being influence his enjoyment of their work. My distaste for the Mr. Jackson as a person certainly sometimes outweighs my enjoyment of his music, especially if the track was produced after the accusations against him were made. Another example would be my father's refusal to listen Guns N' Roses after he discovered that the bonus track on one of their albums was penned by Charles Manson. It is an entirely different thing to take aesthetic pleasure from a text which literally aligns or advocates something distasteful. I don't believe white-power punk rock music could ever be artistically reprehensible, no matter the musicianship (not that I've ever come across a skinhead tune to which that debate would apply.) In the case of Baba Yetu, if your personal moral compass judged the church to be the root of all evil then you would be completely within your rights to modify your enjoyment of the piece. I myself don't find catholicism THAT offensive - thusly, good work Mr. Tin. I’m not up on my Wagner, but I was under the impression that his music as a text in-and-of-itself does not contain any antisemitism (no choruses of “throw the Jew down the well”, et cetera). As Geoff so eloquently put it, I think there is a difference between enjoying a text which has been produced by an artist who personally holds abhorrent views, but is otherwise inoffensive in-and-of-itself, and enjoying a text which literally is a call to violence, hatred, or anything else equally unsavoury.

I’m all in favour of the separation of the artist from the work in this regard – I still enjoy Wagner, I still enjoy the films of Woody Allen despite the man’s questionable and unequivocably icky choice to leave his wife for his step-daughter, and on a more pederstrian note I still enjoy Michael Jackson despite the weighty accusations of pedophilia against him. Though I don’t think there is anything ethically untoward about separating the artist from their work in this way. However, the doesn’t mean that a viewer is not allowed to let his opinion of the artist as a human being influence his enjoyment of their work. My distaste for the Mr. Jackson as a person certainly sometimes outweighs my enjoyment of his music, especially if the track was produced after the accusations against him were made. Another example would be my father’s refusal to listen Guns N’ Roses after he discovered that the bonus track on one of their albums was penned by Charles Manson.

It is an entirely different thing to take aesthetic pleasure from a text which literally aligns or advocates something distasteful. I don’t believe white-power punk rock music could ever be artistically reprehensible, no matter the musicianship (not that I’ve ever come across a skinhead tune to which that debate would apply.) In the case of Baba Yetu, if your personal moral compass judged the church to be the root of all evil then you would be completely within your rights to modify your enjoyment of the piece. I myself don’t find catholicism THAT offensive – thusly, good work Mr. Tin.

]]> By: Geoff http://www.philomathy.org/2009/06/12/baba-yetu-brutus/comment-page-1/#comment-333 Geoff Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:47:27 +0000 http://www.philomathy.org/?p=112#comment-333 I would say that perhaps there is a difference between enjoying Wagner's music and a song that directly called for Antisemitism. I've thought about this when enjoying and teaching Christian inspired art, I can enjoy the artwork from a purely aesthetic viewpoint but I will chose the secular piece over the religious one for school if the secular piece is equal in merit and educational value in representing that period of art history. For example, showing Raphael's School of Athens over some of his more religious pieces. As for the Baba Yetu song, I think I remember playing the game for the first time and calling you into the room to hear it. it is an incredibly beautiful piece. While learning that it is a religious prayer does bother me a bit, one of the key points of the game was that they were introducing the concept of religion into the game. I think Dawkins has talked about this, enjoying singing Christmas carols at Christmas. I think the beauty of the song is not tarnished by the inspiration that created it. On the other hand, I wonder if someone could translate some of Sagan's writings into Swahili and make it into song. I would say that perhaps there is a difference between enjoying Wagner’s music and a song that directly called for Antisemitism.

I’ve thought about this when enjoying and teaching Christian inspired art, I can enjoy the artwork from a purely aesthetic viewpoint but I will chose the secular piece over the religious one for school if the secular piece is equal in merit and educational value in representing that period of art history. For example, showing Raphael’s School of Athens over some of his more religious pieces.

As for the Baba Yetu song, I think I remember playing the game for the first time and calling you into the room to hear it. it is an incredibly beautiful piece. While learning that it is a religious prayer does bother me a bit, one of the key points of the game was that they were introducing the concept of religion into the game. I think Dawkins has talked about this, enjoying singing Christmas carols at Christmas. I think the beauty of the song is not tarnished by the inspiration that created it. On the other hand, I wonder if someone could translate some of Sagan’s writings into Swahili and make it into song.

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